Aug 22, 2024
Read the conversation below
Welcome to the True Sports Physical Therapy Podcast with your host, Dr. Yoni Rosenblatt. Today, we delve into the world of marketing and rehabbing professional athletes with Dr. Zach Colls. In this episode, we explore the unique challenges and strategies involved in working with elite level athletes. Join us as Dr. Colls shares his insights on effectively reaching and engaging professional athletes through targeted marketing techniques. He also discusses the specialized approaches required to rehab these high performing individuals, ensuring their return to their sports stronger and more resilient. Whether you're a physical therapist, sports marketer, or someone interested in the intersection of healthcare and professional sports, this episode offers valuable knowledge on building a successful practice focused on elite athletes.
Welcome back guys to the True Sports Physical Therapy Podcast. My conversation today with Zach Colls really dives into how do you attract professional athletes to your practice and then how do you treat them? What's different about rehabbing the pro athlete as opposed to anyone else? Zach does an awesome job of diving into those specific and those details.
Um, Zach got his doctorate from the University of Miami. There he worked in the men's athletic training room with all sports as both a strength coach and a trainer. Um, he worked with baseball teams specifically, and now he's really become a specialty within the sport of basketball, having worked one on one with John Wall, traveling the country with him while he played for the Rockets.
Um, and now has opened up his own practice in Florida. You're going to hear Zach's story and how he approaches the athlete. As always, we're looking for feedback on how this conversation went. You can shoot us a DM, TrueSportsPT on Instagram. Also, we are looking for sports physical therapists to bring on to our team.
And that's to treat elite level athletes one on one. Every single day in some of the best facilities you'll see in the country. So if you're interested in joining the true sports team, shoot me a DM, you only have to write PT and we'll get right back in touch with you, set up an interview, make sure that you're a great fit and then off to the races, feel free to reach out with anything you guys have right now, without further ado, here's Dr.
Zach Coles. Zach Coles. Welcome to the True Sports Physiotherapy Podcast. Um I try to put a heavy emphasis on getting people's names right because my name is freaking crazy and no one pronounces it properly. I'm not gonna put you on the spot now and ask you to pronounce it but Zach Zach Coles is easy compared to Yoni.
Um so welcome to the podcast. Thanks for making some time man. Yeah, of course. It's a pleasure to be here. Absolutely. So your, your practice is super unique in the landscape because you spend such a high majority of your time treating professional athletes. I want to dig into that. How the hell did you do that?
How did you fill your schedule with professional athletes?
Yeah, I mean, I mean, it definitely wasn't done alone. I have two business partners. Um, again, we're very big on, we all work together. Um, nothing's done individually. But I mean, in short, when I moved from Virginia to Miami, I knew I wanted to work in sports.
That was a big decision, me coming to UM. I got integrated working with the sports at UM pretty much, um, after about like the first year or so, working with the football baseball teams. So that was an exposure to some pretty high level athletes. And then from there, I just, um, got some private clients on the side as far as training them throughout PT school.
And then from there, worked for a private practice in Miami, worked, um, two years, um, combine, NFL combine work at a place in Fort Lauderdale. Branched off from there and opened or kind of brought a, the, the medical side to a basketball driven facility in Miami after that, shortly, shortly after that, I traveled full time with a player for two years, um, or about a year and a half with John wall.
And then. Sure. Around, we came up towards the end of COVID would be my business partner came back, we just kind of both put her or my on the medical side. We brought the medical side to our facility and now we have a lab. And from there, it's just been an effort from all
of us. It's definitely not done alone though.
Okay. So what, what, how would you boil down the secret? If I'm a young PT and I just want to try to get in and treat pro athletes, what advice would you give them?
Yeah. I mean, for me, I guess from a personal standpoint, um, um, social media is pretty big as far as what I do from marketing. I, at least myself, I'm pretty, I dug into that.
I kind of made a pretty consistent effort to do it. A little bit for COVID and then a lot during COVID as time open up a bit, but I'm just doing what you do, doing it confidently. Don't, um, again, they are normal people. They're just like me and you, except they make, they have very large contracts, obviously, just, and a big thing, I think, is confidence and working as a team.
Um, if you think, you know, best, um, typically, at least in my opinion, that doesn't really work the best, but. These guys are likely traveling from I'm not in Miami, but Miami, LA, Arizona, New York, et cetera, et cetera. If you can collaborate with other PTs, other strength coaches, I'm a, I'm a physical therapist, other chiropractors as well.
And other there's some head butting. We. Work with the chiropractors at a time all work together. Um, I think that's, that's key. Now, I'm just not thinking, you know, what's best, but even collaborate, whether it's with two people or 10 people, as long as you put the athletes interests
up front, I think that's, what's most important and, and how do you get the athletes to notice you or like in this world is the athlete, the referral source that's turning, like sending his buddies, um, or his friends.
fellow colleagues, or is it the agents, the doctors, strength coaches?
It's a hybrid of everything you just said. Um, we saw, we both started off on, um, like, or at least I started off on a conversal size when I was traveling with John. Um, he, I had some progress prior to him, but we get some from guys that, that they all have friends, you know, they like it down in Miami.
So obviously helps. It's an all season hub for a lot of NFL, some NBA, not as much NBA, a lot of guys, those guys like the, uh, Be out in LA, but, um, and nonetheless, we have both. So that's all the shade coaches in the area. Um, some teams, some agents, um, it all, it's a hybrid of everything. I just try to, in short, it's a, it's not one source, but, um, if you do, you do it, well, you communicate well with them, communicate well with everyone all around, it works pretty well to keep a pretty consistent flow, whether off season is given, but if a guy gets hurt in season and wants to come.
Not be with the team and be somewhere else. It's a, it opens the doors to keeping some pros in there relatively year
round. Yeah. And, and what's the, how do you divvy up the roles with you and your business partners?
Um, it just, that part really just depends if it's like a direct referral to me, him, well, we'll usually start with, start off with them.
Is he, is he a physical therapist? Yes, I see. I said, yeah, well, we went to school together, every class together for three straight years, pretty similar paths on almost identical paths outside of what we did and then until we came together, um, a few years ago.
Okay. So you're both PTs and you open up movement lab and.
How do you,
let me retrace it. I retract that. So there's actually two businesses there. So there's a gym side, there's a movement lab step on and my other business partner and Miguel, they opened that up a while we were still in PT school. They're both born and raised here. And then we brought the official medical side of the USA sports, um, or research specific USA sports medicine, Miami lakes to that about two years ago.
Um, that's when we really brought together. The gym side and also like the official PT side as like a actual business.
Okay. So an athlete, an athlete calls the business. Hey, I want to, I need physical therapy. How do you determine who treats them? Um, are there other PTs that work out of there? What's the flow of the athlete when that happens?
Yeah, so we're the only PTs, we have a chiro in there some days of the week, but we are the only PTs that fits and typically, honestly, how it goes is, um, they reach out to me, they reach out to him, they'll usually see him first, they'll start with him, and we might, um, take most of the rehab, but it really depends how busy we are, um, because we typically, there's no like, I need this person A, B, C, D, E, F, G on my schedule today.
We're pretty big on like the co treating concept is we are almost like a mirror of yourself. I'm like, I can leave if I had to leave for three months, I would be a hundred percent confident giving him every single person on my schedule. I think he feels the exact same way. And we, even when we didn't officially have the company, we were already doing that.
But he was traveling with some, I was traveling with some, I was in my, in and out of Miami. He was in and out of Miami, Texas, et cetera, et cetera. So, um, I guess in short, it doesn't matter too much. We both trust what we both do. We both have a strength coach background. We both have a PT background, very similar in how we treat and prescribe exercise.
So typically they start with whoever gets reached out to, and based on how our schedules look, um, we just make it work however works best for the athlete's schedule. So if they need 8am every day, but he's fully booked or I'm fully booked at 8, just, I already have a solid time for this person. Mike hand them off, etc, etc.
Um, okay. And and how long do you spend with a given athlete? It can be anywhere at minimum. I would say probably no one's in there less than seventy five and 90 minutes. It can be up to three to 4 hours. How long are they one-on-one with you? The first hours pretty much guaranteed. One-on-one after that.
They're all well aware though, um, especially a lot of 'em, if they don't do the training here, they, they, 'em have similar strength coaches, so if they, a lot of NFL guys trained as a group, so if they're training in a group of like six to eight and they all wanna come to PT prior, if they all know they can't see us at the exact same time, if they all wanna come in at 8:00 AM.
So we do our best to, um, to space it out, at least 30 minutes to just get someone started if they all need this time so they can all go work out at the same time. But generally we try to give every single person an hour, like an hour of direct one on one time. And then from there, we kind of just, we got the bounce around between us as owners, staff that we have with us.
Um, but it's all, like I said, it's a very collaborative effort. I would never take any full credit for myself. Um, it's everyone working as a team. I think that's what makes everything work so well with us here. I think every athlete would agree with that as well. It's just, we all work very all together versus.
And then, and then what's your vision for the place? Do you want to hire more PTs? Do you want to build out the team? Where do you see this thing going?
Yeah, that would be the, that, that, yeah, that that's the goal is to add more PTs to bring all realms of medicine all within the facility. I guess that we have a chiropractor that comes in now about two to three times a week, just depending on the volume.
It's more during the off season time when we are kind of chaotic. And then, yeah, multiple locations. That's, that's the goal. But the first goal was to get this up and running. We've been here for about a little over two years now, but to get this running where it's just consistent year round, as we know, athletes have a season that they have to get back to.
So they're not here year round. So it can't just, you can't rely on your athletes. So Again, as much as we treat athletes, we have people as young as 10 years old, adolescent athletes. And I think our oldest person here has been 91 or 93 years old. So we have a very wide variety, but at the same time, it's what you need to give them, in my opinion, a business running.
You can't just rely on only pro athletes, 24 seven.
Yeah. And, and is the treatment model the same for them? So 91 year old dude walks in, he gets an hour of your time. Yeah,
everyone,
um,
everyone we have, they're all getting, they're, they're, they're scheduled for allow or scheduled for an hour, especially from the get go.
If it's someone that's in there, like kind of just year round maintenance and they get really comfortable with everyone around, they actually, You will find out, you would think they want their own hour, but they actually prefer, they like being around all the pro guys or other people as they, a lot of these guys, they develop friendships, whether it's just like the, the jump up or even the pro guys, but they all become friends.
That's what makes it kind of unique. A lot of them are in people on the gym side that just work out here. Like, Oh my God, I. Watch him play on TV or I watch XYZ do whatever play, play, whatever sport. And they're right there. We're working out with them, right next to them for three months, every single day.
So,
yeah, yeah, that's really cool. Now, do you do any marketing targeted towards gen pop? Yes.
I mean, well, we've, I mean, we haven't been on the PT side, the greatest of marketing we've been. Um, yeah, it's actually a topic of conversation. The past like week or two with us, we need to do a bit more better as far as marketing.
A lot of it's just been social media, honestly. It's, um, At least for myself personally is social media is my, it's, it's basically a part time job for me. I don't know about a part time job. It's marketing to bring people in the door, reach out online, et cetera, et cetera.
Okay. So bring us into that conversation that you're having with your business partner.
You're like, Hey, we got to market more. What have you done? You said you social media well, but what's your plan of attack?
We're still trying to figure it out. I mean, we, again, we work with just probably stop, stop by more empty offices. Do more follow ups with patients to do more from just, instead of just my page, probably have like a business page, um, go to more law firms, stop by law firms that develop more connections with them.
So we do work at PIP and LLP as well. Um, we do do some community events that we do like recovery for run clubs and various, um, you know, just like sports things we've already done. So I guess I wouldn't say we've done no marketing, but it just, that hasn't been the forefront because. When we got started, it was pretty much, if I'm not mistaken, right in the summer, which was right in the middle of offseason, press open to get go.
We never really had a downtime. So it's always been kind of like, okay, this place is up and running. Let's just. Let's just keep going with it. So I haven't had a whole like, okay, let's, let's plan this out more strategically. It's been, which is a blessing in disguise, but there was never really too much of like a downtime, but yeah, there's some things that we can certainly improve upon.
Yeah. So, um, I totally get that. That I've been there before. So even in like trying to schedule this conversation, which the audience has been waiting with bated breath for years to, for this Zach Cole conversation. So you do a ton of treating, right? You're treating how many hours a day? It
really depends.
I mean, it's not true. I guess if you're comparing to, don't
tell me you haven't been that busy, because if you haven't been that busy, you've just been putting me off.
No, yeah, no, I mean, so I mean, my typical day, I'm up at 4am, I, we start people with off season somewhere between 6 and 7, typically 7am and I'll go typically to about 5pm.
But then, of course, as you know, as a PT yourself, the day never ends, you have do stuff on the admin side, documentations, insurance, I mean, we, we are out of network with insurance. I don't know if you, anyone who has experience with out of network, let's say with a very high volume Cigna NFL NBA, it's not the most fun process in the world.
And they don't typically love to see a guy that's been in 50 to 70 times in an off season. So that's. Yeah, a lot of phone calls, even though we do have staff that, that, that does help us with that. Stefan's very good at, at that side as well, my, my, my business partner, but, um, lots of phone calls, a lot of communicating, lots of, I mean, I'm on the phone with Stefan sometimes some nights.
Yeah. Thanks. 10, 11, 12, figuring things out, scheduling the next day. Um, for athletes, they aren't your typical, let's schedule three, four weeks in advance. It's, uh, let's get a text at midnight. Hey, can you do 7am tomorrow? Yeah, let's, let's make it work or et cetera, et cetera. Um, schedule changes. Can't make it until scheduled 11 because my court time changed.
All right,
make it work, but. Love that. Okay. Okay. So how, how much time do, would you say you spend working on the business as opposed to working in the business? Everything you just described is working in the business. How much time do you spend working on it? Whether it be forecasting, whether it be budgeting, whether it be designing this marketing plan that you just had a meeting about.
When does that happen?
We block, we try, that's another thing. We went, we, we just had a meeting this week as we typically do block out times or whether it's an hour or two a week to just kind of game plan between ourselves and even with staff. Um, so I've said, I'd say a few hours a week. If we have more time, we'll sit down on schedule, just in the facility to talk about things, discuss things, run through a bunch of things.
So I couldn't give you an exact number, but ideally at least one to three hours a week with, uh, just, just between us. One to
three hours a week and you're treating how many hours a week?
Let's say we start at seven or eight and around four or five, but not every hour. Our afternoons are lighter and it might be a gap of two, three hours where there's no one.
It might be the same time I might have someone from seven to 12 scheduled every 30 minutes.
And what do you, what do you see as the best or the biggest growth potential that's facing your current business? Uh, what do you mean by that? Sorry. No, what I, what I mean is like, what is an untapped market that you're not currently crushing that you say, Hey, this is, this does fit our model.
We need to chase this. This is the way I kind of look at our businesses. I look at like, okay, where are these referrals coming from? Where does our skillset sit in possibly another referral or another, another athletic population or another population period specialty, I want to attack that. What's what's next for you guys.
I would say a focus of us is a hybrid between more like the, the law firms are close to us and in the local area. We just haven't had as much time to go to those. And then baseball is a big one, especially for myself. Um, that was my sport growing up and always played it. I worked with a team in U M some while I was in school, but that baseball market, again, we do have, we've had some, some, some college players, um, some adolescent athletes, but that's just a market we haven't tapped into.
How do you do that? Um, Miami has a million places. So it's not like you're the one sports place around. A lot of them, Miami is a place where if you're not close to the area, you typically don't want to leave it. Um, so I think our best bet is honestly just, you know, Making a better effort of going to local high schools.
Like we've done that some with some basketball teams, just working with the actual high schools, basketball teams, as far as training. And if someone gets, um, gets hurt, which hopefully they don't, but they get hurt, they come to the PT side as well. So that's, yeah, that's, uh, that's a goal is, um, get more involved with baseball slash softball, basically like.
Towing sports. I would say that's been a goal of ours for about a year or so now is we do have a pretty large influx of other sports. So baseball would be one that would be great to tap into more.
Guys, quick pause and a quick shout out to this new Masterclass that we just launched here at true sports, physical therapy, myself and Dr.
Tim stone put together a masterclass of ACL rehab, and we call it from table to turf. And the reason we call it that is because it's going to teach you exactly how to get your athlete all the way from post op day one with the nitty gritty of regaining all of that range of motion with the tips and the tricks that we use here at true sports, physical therapy, that gets our athletes to better, faster and stronger.
And that's early. And then how do you progress that athlete all the way onto the field with a ball in their foot or stick in their hand or whatever their sport is and teach them how to accelerate, how to decel, how to change direction, all the mechanics that go in there. What drills do we use to To get our athletes exactly where they need to be back on the field and even better than before injury.
And I want you to sign up for that class. Now you can find it on our website. You can shoot us a direct message and just say, Hey, send me the course. It's right now on sale. So make sure you sign up now it is fully accredited to get you all of your continuing education hours. Sign up for the true sports masterclass ACL from table to turf.
Thanks, guys. Yeah. And, and you know, you make the point that Miami ain't like Maryland. Like Miami has a sports PT on every single corner, right? They also have millions of athletes, but they got a sports PT who says they're the best on every corner. What's your pitch? What's your elevator pitch to the baseball athlete, to the baseball coach, to the pitching coach to say you gotta send them to Zach Coles?
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say something to just me. I would say you'd come here and get a collaborative effort between all of our staff. You come to the facility, you have PT, chiro, strength and conditioning. It's a private facility. It's not a facility where you can walk in and just train. You have the option of working in a group of a semi private training.
training, private PT, and we try to make it a one stop shop. We've all played sports. You have tons of athletes that have been in here and we can, we can name drop a few names that are, let's say they, a few like the, um, baseball names, maybe basketball names, if they're. Oh, yeah, we've had X, Y, Z name. This is how we helped them.
Um, there would be something along those lines, but again, I know I've kind of already touched upon this. It would never be to come in to just see me. It would be to come and see the whole team here.
Yeah, no. And I, and I think that's, that's totally worthwhile because you only have so many hours to treat. I just think it's really important for those listening.
I think it's really important to understand you have to own what makes you better, right? And I think you did a good job of just outlining that, uh, Number one, you get one on one time for an hour. That's probably hard to find. I think that's one big differentiator. The other thing is I have worked with elite level athletes, um, at this given sport.
They've had this type of outcome. That's why you got to come to us. Um and what makes us unique. I think it's it's unbelievable how many people I have on this podcast or I just talked to um in passing and they're not tight on their elevator pitch. They're not tight on what their differentiator is. I think you obviously have done that.
Um I just think it's important to kind of keep that in mind. Um let me ask you this. Do you feel like you went to University of Miami, right? Yes. Okay. Coming out of graduate school, how prepared were you just based on that education to treat a professional athlete?
Um, I mean, so through internships, I felt I would sit, like, I wouldn't say, uh, like, I mean, even now you're, you're never, if you feel like you're complacent and you're not learning that you're falling behind, that's, that's my opinion.
Like if you're, you think you're good, you're at the moment, you think you're good, you're falling behind. So at no point where I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm confident I can do everything, but having the experience of working, doing a few. Uh, NFL where the, um, college football preseason camps with you, um, work by the baseball team, testing all the athletes, um, through a ton of that, that definitely helped internship, um, at a local place in Miami that had a pretty high or pretty high volume of NFL athletes helped as well.
So I
was that through the school or did you hustle to get those internships?
They were through the school. I mean, I was employed in the, or like, um, under the head athletic director at U M. So that was already, uh, my job was to, um, be a GA, GA for him for the, for Therex, and then also held in the training room, which was about two and a half years.
Um, and then all the internship, yeah, it was all all through school. Um, so I I'd say I felt pretty confident. I worked at private practice that did, um, they partnered with XP sports in Fort Lauderdale. So I helped out with NFL combine work and NFL season work twice there. And from there, when we branch in, I branch into that basketball facility.
I mean, it was just me there alone as far as whatever. So that's kind of going back to the confidence thing. Like if you're timid and you're shaking with this kind of table, you're doing something with them and you look like you've never used a dry needle before, or you're stretching and you're just, you come across nervous, they're going to look at it and be like, Yeah, no, I'm, I'm actually good.
I can, they're going to walk out. So I think that's a, a big thing is just, and even if you don't have the answer, give them the best answer you got, go and go figure it out tonight and then get back tomorrow. And then you, you, you had the right answer.
Okay. So, so that's a mindset thing and an approach then, right.
Um, which it sounds like you kind of own that process, which is great. I think that's great advice. You got to own that process. You're very lucky that. You have them put you in that position or gave you those opportunities. At least I certainly was not afforded those in my graduate, um, programming. So I think that's awesome that you had that and that you chose to really chase that stuff down.
What, what would you say the biggest difference is in treating a pro athlete, someone who makes. 10 million bucks a year compared to your MVA case that you're hunting down with lawyers.
Um, I mean, there was a number of things. Good. Name them all, Zach. The pro guys. I mean, we. just naturally, we spend more time with them, especially if we're doing their training and PT it's got to where it's going to bring on the guys.
I never three, maybe four hours. Um, they, if they're been in a league for 10 years, they have a whole list of injuries. They're going to typically be, or they're going to want to want to expect more soft tissue work, or they likely will go find somewhere else. Um, young guys, again, it just depends. It is shifting a little more, but I would say type it on table, number of areas.
treating slash co treating and then as far as them is kind of everyone sitting down prior to we kind of it was coming in every off season so we kind of try to program a full like their full off season ahead so I guess it takes a bit more collaborative collaborative effort for all of them. Um, versus say, like I'd say, uh, Carson, in case you don't really know what you're getting, it's going to come in very randomly.
Um, and the motivation level, I guess I'll touch upon that, might not always be there, where a pro athlete, they're coming to see you by choice. Because they want to get better there. And if they're like, see on the contract year, they want to get better and they want their next contract where, again, this is, it goes back and forth with someone's, you know, they've been, uh, they got, they got a small accident.
They don't always want it. BNPT, they kind of know they have to be there. Um, and then just some motivation level that's sometimes slightly different, but again, on a contrast, you have some growers, super motivated and. Love coming here. So, um, sometimes they can look the same. Sometimes they can look completely different.
The levels of exercises, modalities used, I think the most common one, dry needling. Most pro guys, they've done it a thousand times. They don't care. It's like, sure, we can do needles or let's, they'll usually come in and say today's needle day. Where you offer dry needling to someone that's never done before and they see like a pretty long, you know, they're like, I don't know about that.
So sometimes just kind of just educating on why, why this would probably work good today where pro guys, again, especially after a few years, they know what everything is. You don't really got to explain too much because they're aware of it.
How about, um, exercise selection? Do you notice a difference? Like if you have a patellar tendinopathy, um, In a, let's say, um, a desk jockey compared to your NBA two guard, do you approach those cases differently?
Exercise wise,
in a sense, I would, and like a short answer. Yes. And now, um, early on, that's not an answer. So yes and no. Um, it's all 10 and up at the, Yes, we do put them on what we call a tenant voting program. It's typically, I mean, it depends on how much time we have them for. That would be another difference is these progress can be in there for an infinite amount, again, infinite amount of time, but we do like to put them on ideally like at least like a 12 week tenant voting program.
And then where it starts to differ is end goal where end goal is NFL or any other guy, any pro athlete needs to be explosive where end goal for someone who just wants to just. I, maybe not even go to the gym. They just want, don't want their, their, their knees hurting anymore. They don't probably need to be doing, you know, depth jumps and like all these different multi multi directional loading.
So when we start getting into a program, we started seeing some change in that tendon, how the tendon actually looks under scans, we started advancing some of these exercises, don't really got to always do that with, I mean, if they, if that's a goal of theirs, yeah, a hundred percent, they do the playback basketball or they want to get the gym, or maybe they just want to train like an athlete a hundred percent.
But if they don't have an interest in that. I mean, if things are going great, they feel good. What's what's uh, getting crazy dynamic and the reflares opt is that their attendance just not as healthy, not as resilient as a pro athlete. You play them off. It's just like, what was the purpose of them doing all that?
So it just depends on goals.
Yeah. Okay. So, so that makes a ton of sense. Um, I always notice like when I am, when I'm treating an NFL athlete, when I go to the weight stack or when I go to the dumbbell rack. I would normally grab, let's say it's 15, 20 pound dumbbell. I'm just going to grab a 50. It's like some of these guys, it just takes so much more to challenge.
Where else do you see that outside of the resistance? As far as like what, like what you need to do to challenge them. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, cardiovascularly, um, that's always a big concept, especially with our, I mean, it's, it's any surgery. So I always, I tell people I'm, I'm not gonna be the guy that does all your on core on field work.
That's not my realm. I'm not going to pretend like it is. That's all purpose of working with a team. That's where I think some people fall in trouble. But I think it is your job as a strength coach or a PT, or if you do a hybrid of both, like all of us do here is you've got to condition them. I mean, I don't want someone to be in here, let's say for, you know, Prior to them doing any field work for, let's say four to four or five months.
And they haven't done any, all they've done is strengthening and they've done no conditioning. So from the get go, I find out what's available and from long sealants, the first week or two, whether it's a salt bike, a skier, something we are kind of like working on that, that cardiovascular health. So, um, that'd, that'd be one area that's, um, I would say.
Yeah,
for sure. Okay. What about, um, interpersonally, you know, you paint such an idyllic, um, representation of what a pro athlete looks like. Yes. A lot of them are highly motivated. I also get the guys that come in, um, don't want to work hard because, hey, I just had a game on Sunday or whatever it is. I'm going to be on my phone the whole time.
I'm just going to lay on the table. You do that. You do your thing. I'll be scrolling Instagram. A, do you come across that? Or is that just me? B, how do you deal with that crap?
Yeah, I mean, a hundred percent. I mean, typically I feel like I keep using the same example, but NFL, I feel like Wednesday's like national NFL off day, as far as off season, as far as they're on a Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, uh, split Wednesday might be an optional pool day, maybe a little bit of movement mobility.
So I know they're coming in, they're looking for pretty much table work. And then if they're in season. I'd say like, like some of the Dolphins players, they're, they're gonna go to the game. They might wanna come in like a Thursday, Friday, end of the week. Um, or even on their off date, I think typically Tuesdays and I mean, they're, they're already getting, getting the crap out of like, with games and like, I, I get it.
So like, I'm, I'm fine with it. I know that they're coming in, they want, they want extra recovery work outside of the team. Yeah. I'm personally fine with it. 'cause I know when they're with us, like in season there, they're, I'd say. Yeah, but coming in Wednesday, they don't want to do too much. Well, they've already put in, or I know they're giving us four days of probably three, four hours in there.
So if you want to come in, have a, have a nice little spot in the table, that's um, we're, we're cool with it. We're.
Do you have a phone policy? Okay. How often is a guy just sitting on their phone? They don't realize you're in the room. Every single day. Every single day. Does that, does that eat at you? How do you handle that?
I mean, on the table, I don't really, I mean, they, they, they, they, they talk and joke around with all of us, but if they're on a table and they're. Guys were working on there, their hamstrings, and they're just laying down on their phone. Nice. I, I personally don't really care. And when they're training, I mean, they, they might check it out here and there, but like when we're actually training and I, I up and moving, they're never like, I don't have to like, yo, like their phone is wherever it is.
So that's never, if they're resting between sets. Sure. Sure. Go check something, but I've never had an issue as far as like, like hello. Like, you know, like I got a kid in school, like, Hey, definitely. I personally ever had the issue and on a table, I don't care. You can do whatever you want on the table. I just offer what you want to do.
I usually ask them what's the plan today. We're doing this and this, you're doing anything special today. We're doing shockwave needles. A, et cetera, et cetera. You want needle shockwave. Perfect. Got it. Just lemme know if you need anything.
Okay, gotcha. Um, that's, that's a very healthy outlook. I think. I, I have found that, um, just an understanding that when you're, when you're in here and when you're with me, you can be on your phone, but when we are working out or I need you to focus because I, I want good outcomes, period.
For sure. And at times I want it more than the athlete. And have you ever come across that where you feel like you want this need to calm down more than they want it to calm down? I
would say we've had, I wouldn't say I want it more, but I've had, I feel like I'm had very equal levels as far as like, this is annoying.
Why is this, or let's say a tendinopathy, why has this been going on so long? And between like, and this will include making phone calls throughout Saturday, Sunday. From the morning I wake up with, let's say agents, I started trying to figure it out agents, teams, the player itself, just like, just let's let's freaking figure this out.
This thing out. So yes, I will. It's not uncommon for me on a Saturday night at 9 p. m. to get a phone call.
Yeah, yeah, I get that. Okay. What do you do? What do you do with the stubborn tendinopathy in season? I distinctly remember one of the first NFL guys I worked out with. I had him come in the middle of a game week.
Um, and I'm like, okay, we got to do some hurdle hops. He's like, Yoni, I was just in 30 car crashes on Sunday. Like there's no way in hell I'm working on hurdle hops. But in my head, I'm like, we got to do something to, to load this tendon appropriately. You just running on it and pissing it off. Isn't getting the same desired response that I'll get from loading the tendon.
Um, how do you handle in, in season something stubborn that really might need rest?
Yeah. I mean, very similar to you just explaining that a tendon needs more than just sitting there doing nothing and also needs more than just being dynamic 20, 24, seven, 365, 65 days of the year. Uh, we, we, we do, we've had a very number, a very high volume of decent, uh, pretty big name tendon injuries come to our clinic.
So they do get an understanding. We've worked with maybe any given day, we might have all four of our tables with people with Achilles, whether it's Achilles ruptures or Achilles tendinopathies. So I'm just explaining the rhyme reason, um, as far as why we're doing it there. But again, they're, they get so accustomed to, like, we kind of, they already, they, they, they, they've been with us for at least two months or even less, even a month, they couldn't know the end of their lips there that they have, like these two or three movements that they're going to go do as far as tendon loading.
Um, so yeah, just kind of, it's just explaining it, but I feel like guys are getting, I think it's, it helps that on social media, they're showing teams lifting. I think the Timberwolves are pretty good, pretty good at, uh, showing like teams lifting after games or even like in, in season and it doesn't have to be the craziest lift, but give me 20 or 45 minutes.
That's awesome.
Yeah. that can go a lot. Yeah. I feel like that has caught on far more in the NBA than it has in the NFL. Yeah,
I would agree at the NFL after they don't, they don't want to do too much. Um yeah, I don't try. I'd say currently, I don't really get too much tendinopathy and then in season, I just get the guy.
That's it. Guys are we just get the guys that come in that are just tired as hell and just want some extra recovery prior to
their flight. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. Um okay. Let's dig into Achilles tendinopathy a little bit. Why do you think it has become so prevalent? It's like the new ACL in the NFL.
Yeah, it's a number of reasons that we've, we try to have this conversation.
I can't pinpoint one, but I think a big part of it is trained as being athlete, just being bigger, better, faster, stronger, trying to keep up with each other, social media as a part of it, as much as I love social media as part of an issue, because you see this, Oh, this, this looks cool. And in an off season, you're supposed to kind of take, you're supposed to take care of everybody and let's say, and prove upon a few things, but if you're out there, I'd say on the court.
Trying to prove a point the entire op season, you know, doing runs from the get go like Or pick up from the get go You never go to like a proper just Even eight to 12 week all season routine, whether it's for attendant loading or just a general, even just a general straight to routine, you're trying to prove a point to really no one except for maybe a few people watching the court.
I mean, I think that's part of the issue is just doing too much in all season and not focusing on things that really matter. Doing some things in the clinic, which I'm sure you've seen in social media, as far as exercises that have no rhyme or reason that just look cool and get likes. That's part of an issue.
I think there's been, I've heard something about, I think we've looked at cell phone usage as far as everything being lengthened, like the use of sitting on a couch and say your toes are up, your neck's down, the entire posterior chain being lengthened constantly all the time. I don't know how much that plays a factor at all.
I think I've read something or I've heard something about that. Um, but I think it's very multifactorial, but I think it comes down to doing too much too soon and not enough rest and recovery. Do you think Turf plays a role at all? I, I noticed it might not be a popular opinion. I don't think Turf has too, too much to do with it.
Why, why do you think that? Guys have been playing on Turf for a bit and just directly talking to guys. A lot of them, at least that we have. And they might not, I love it, but I don't think they attribute too much to being the turf.
Well, I also think it's worthwhile to think about like, how much is in your control?
Uh, we don't have a lot of control over the surface they play on, right? We have to adapt to that surface. And it sounds like what you're describing is they're not doing enough prehab. Um, they're definitely not getting the rest that they need. Uh, they don't have the ramp up that they need. I think that, that would make a lot of sense, um, as to why these exploits are popping.
Um,
And a tally off of that, that last part you just said is it's like a free agent that's not on a team, which happens. I think everyone's experienced this. If you're not on a team and you obviously you put that, that keyword, they ramp up throughout off season. You go through phases. Well, you hit the end of the off season where you're typically supposed to be going back to the teams.
Well, let's say you have a guy that's. Not on a team, but can get a phone call literally tomorrow. So now you're like, shit, now I'm, I'm at this point. Like what you're supposed to be like, you know, peeking, maybe take a little like deload week to get to go back to the team, uh, be refreshed. But you got to be in a state ready mode for ever.
Yeah, it could be forever. It could, it could be the entire off season. And it's very hard to get that person to say, Hey, maybe we do vote because, which they'll usually agree to it. But it's like, they told them to, let's take it easy for a little bit. And they're like, well, I might be getting a government.
My agent said that I might be getting a call next week or they're expecting a call next week. And if they don't feel like they're in the best, the best condition to perform while they are, they can do, then that's a thing. That's also a factor for some people. It's just like hitting that peak phase. And then having to stay in that peak phase for infinity time.
Yeah. That's that's just any, anyone's
got to break down. True sports physical therapy is growing like wildfire. We have 14 locations soon to be more. We are throughout the state of Maryland. We're in Pennsylvania, in Lebanon, in York, Pennsylvania, as well as in Delaware, in Newark and Wilmington, Delaware.
Like I said, so many more practices to come and we always need outstanding sports, physical therapists. Our treatment style is unique. We are one on one with your athlete for 45 minutes. Every single session, you do the entire treatment, you do the entire evaluation, and they are in state of the art facilities where you have room to run, throw, and jump, and really get your athlete all the way back to on the field and better and stronger than they were.
We also have outstanding salaries. Comp structures, bonus abilities, 401ks, as well as a very strong continuing education offering, including in house continuing education. And we're looking for you. Now is the time as we are growing like crazy. Just shoot your resume over to Yoni Y O N I at TrueSportsPT or shoot us a DM and we will hit you back.
We will get you in for our unique tried and true interview process and really make a determination. That this is the right place for you to grow your career and get your athletes better than ever. We can't wait to hear from you. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. One of the Achilles injuries that sticks out of my mind.
I was just working with an NFL guy. He's like 11 months now post op. He blew out his Achilles preparing for their conditioning test. Their conditioning test is a series of tempo runs. And. He's a 280 pound lineman, essentially. Right. So like how, how tailored is that to what he needs to do for a living? Not really tailored.
The problem is it's just this old school mentality. Well, this is our conditioning test. So, you know, we'll, we'll grade it based upon how heavy you are, what position you are, but it's definitely not truly positioned specific because it doesn't represent what he has to do on the field. I think that's a little bit of a.
Of a disconnect. You'll see what kind of, give me a horror story from a professional athletes. training regimen that just blew your mind as far as like something that's been done. It just does it like you cannot, what in professional sports from a rehab and strengthening conditioning standpoint blows your mind that is still being done?
Um, I mean, it's just a number of things. I mean, just seeing some of just, just too much excessive plyometrics from the get go. A lot of it's again, let's say a guy goes out to. LA or Miami, if they're just there for a week, someone's going to want to obviously get cool video footage and they're springing around like just, just like crazy.
I'm trying to think of anything a bit more specific, which I'm sure there's tons of things out there that would probably come to mind. I mean, I'm not getting anything off the top of my, like, spot off the top of my head right now as far as like, why is this thing done? But there's. It's just, I mean, I think it speaks for itself.
You see on social media, I was like, what's, what's, what's subjective here.
How does it, right, right. What is the point? I, I, I definitely seen that. I mean, I saw an off season training regimen. Um, it was during COVID. So what they did was they got all of their guys, um, like, uh, minimum amount of equipment. They shipped it to the guys.
One of the things was a jump rope and like, like picture A zoom call of 30 guys doing 600 reps of a jump rope. Um, and lo and behold, like I was flush with Achilles tendinopathies or tendinitis is like immediately after like, how does that make sense? That's crazy. And you always think I always have these conversations where you assume they are getting the absolute best in house and rarely.
Is that the case? I see a lot of old school interventions. What, what organization strikes, um, or sticks out in your mind as someone who's doing it really well? As far as organization, um, what, what, what NFL team, what NBA team really has an awesome grasp on, uh, performance training?
Um, I mean, I think, I mean, I, I can't speak too much.
I, I've only been around mainly the rocket staff. I mean, I think they, they, they, they do, um, do pretty well. I've been some around, like communicated somewhat. They, they hate staff. I think the heat staff do really well as far as keeping their guys in shape. I know some of my guys don't, don't love it. So they have to be, they do high.
I think it's well known. They, you know, Have a pretty high standard for being in a certain condition. I can't speak on too much that I don't know of, so I can't answer that completely, but it has been around the heat and the rocket stuff. I think they do very well.
Yeah, um, and in the NFL, I've seen the Vikings do really well.
Like, their use of force plate analysis and the way it actually dictates what transpires on the training side. Um, I see a lot of NFL teams that have forest plates that are either collecting dust in the corner. Like they're just not used or they're used every six months. Um, and it doesn't really track with what they're trying to do.
So, um, you know, I, I just see a lot of mistakes there. Tell me the biggest mistake in Zach Cole's career that you've made. Rehabbing professional athletes. Biggest mistake I've made rehabbing
professional athletes. Um,
I mean, it's amazing that it's so hard to think of a mistake. I mean, uh,
uh, much I said in any cocky manner by any means, as they say, if you're not, if you're not learning, you're falling behind. Um, I mean, I guess being early on, just, just not knowing me. Yeah, I mean, just this isn't kind of a completely answer your question, but just not working with enough line of guys.
I think the more you work with, the more guys you work with, the more you can tailor it, the more you can figure out what works, what doesn't work. Um, just not working with certain conditions at all. I mean, maybe I didn't do that, do this as best as far as loading. Maybe I loaded this too quickly. Um, but, um, I don't really, I don't say I'm not, not kind of what, I don't have any crazy nightmare stories for you.
Like this happened and it was like, Oh my God, this is, this is
bad again. Not kind of would, but how do you avoid that? How, how did you avoid the catastrophe that I could listen to? A million of in my career,
um, I mean, having a strength and conditioning background before the PT, I'm like doing like a crazy amount and I probably worked anywhere from 20 to 50 hours a week in PT school, as far as training and working in the training room, reps, learning under residents, training myself, learning under the head of the head athletic director internship, taking notes as far as how they worked with progress.
It was, it was also pretty much like a hybrid training and PT. Just being, I mean, doing it yourself, I think you learn best by doing and then learning under under others that have done a great and just knowing that there's many, many people out there that are much better than you. And being open minded to any open ideas and just say, Hey, I'm, I'm just here to learn and just absorbing and chanting notes and learn and then implement.
So I think that helped me a lot in PT school is learning on the people that at such a. experience with college and pro athletes, learning from them and then implementing and then also, yeah, like I said, just self work as far as constantly being a trainer that helped a lot of PT school.
Yeah, that's a healthy mindset.
Okay, how about this? How about if I pose it this way? What kind of mistakes have you seen other PTs make? When rehabbing professional athletes doing too much too soon. Okay. Give me a sec. Can you think of a
specific example coming in? And it's first week we have, um, doing crazy plyometrics or squatting as heavy as possible versus the sporting as heavy as possible.
And within a few weeks we have, uh, knees kind of bothering me. It's that's, and then I'll say my knees aren't bothering me. It's not that big of a deal, but it's not bothering you guys. You kind of know, okay, we have a knee issue two weeks in house. It's kind of look in six to eight weeks progressively. And God, okay.
There. You already started here at this is your baseline week one, you're squatting 405. Okay. By week six, eight, I should be squatting X, Y, Z. And I'm just, I'm just doubling numbers, but I think in short, just doing too much too soon, and I think again, that falls back to a lot of it is not having a proper strength and conditioning background and knowing how to in short, fundamentally load.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and I, the truth is I see that a ton and I see it from in house PTs where PTs working at the NFL level with NFL athletes all day, every day employed by the organization swing and miss on that because there we get to siloed as a profession. I mean, you've hit on a couple of times in this conversation, the way you lean on your strength and conditioning background.
Is imperative to being an outstanding physical therapist too often. We become so medical and so textbook. And if I had a nickel for every time I saw, um, an NFL athlete doing three sets of 10 towel crunches for intrinsic foot strength, it might, you know, I'd be loaded. It's crazy. It's crazy, but we get to siloed.
Um, I think is, is one big mistake. Um, another big thing is, uh, I guess going off
as well as doing too many, just like. Social media ask exercises, like 10, 000 bands. And again, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll add bands for like accommodating resistance for like more speech drink to work, et cetera, et cetera.
And, you know, if it's like a Wednesday, they just want, you know, some creative mobility work. Sure. Maybe we'll give them some of these, these things that just, you know, just some stability stuff, but like when it's done, just. Just like this is, this is your off season program. You have band point for every direction.
Your balance kind of goes there. And it's just some things are like, what did you accomplish over those 12 weeks? Like, is there any strengthening? Was there any proper loading? Was there any
just measures? Right. And, and was it measured, right? Like how do you measure that progression? Um, I think that gets tough when you, when you start getting fancy with bands.
Um, okay. It sounds like, you know, your clinic is a dream. It sounds like your patient population is one that I would have. Killed another human to treat when I was in graduate school. Give me the downside of working with professional athletes.
Um, I mean, I think keep it, keep it short of scheduling. I mean, if you can't, I mean, some people, you know, you like they have their, they know their schedule going into the next week.
I typically don't know my schedule until 10, 11, the night before, and I'm texting other people and trying to move people around or even texting early that morning. Again, we have to sometimes change our schedule a bit during prime off season. Where it's mainly just athletes in the morning, just due to the chaotic, where 8, 8 AM might mean 11 AM.
Um, and I wanted to get fair to everyone. I don't want to have someone that has the, the, the, all they have is an hour and a half in our place and they show up and we have five guys to show up because. Who knows? Um, so that would probably be unsure and it's just an inconsistent schedule that I'm used to it.
It is what it is. We just know it. You just know what's coming. You anticipate it. It is the way it is. It's just like, all right, well, we'll make it work. There's both of us. We're used to chaos. Um, it doesn't bother us, but I can see where if you don't know your schedule or you already have your schedule set for the day and you have, Oh, these five guys that's coming after there now, yeah, sure.
Come in. Yeah.
Yeah. And I, and I think, I think you got, you got to be careful with how much leeway you give guys. It's, it's awesome to be accommodating. Um, I think you can really get taken advantage of, or at least I would say I'm. I remember very distinctly early on in my career when I was treating an NFL guy, I remember him showing up about two hours late for his appointment, not texting, not letting me know, shows up.
I'm working with other patients that have just the same amount of right to my time as you do. Um, I remember his line was, I don't think you understand Johnny, we show up when we want to. Okay. So I've never, I think that's
a blessing is, um, yeah, I think we, everyone agreed. I think that's why all these guys get along so well.
We, we, we may even have, even if not had very big ego guys, um, and they usually know if they're late and they come in and we're not ready. It's just like a mutual respect as far as like, yeah, that's, that it's on me. I know I was supposed to be here at nine. If I showed up at even nine, 45, 10, I can't get on the table right away.
Like they, yeah, we've never gotten up for like, uh, like, you know, you got onto me. I mean, even though I'm an hour too late, you need to be seeing me first. Like they know they're, They see us, we're there, we're busy, and they see, tell their athletes, so they're gonna, you know, if they come in and demand something and there's 10 other guys in there, how are they gonna look?
So, there is like a mutual respecting as far as like, this was the time you're scheduled. You're late. I'm I'm still gonna work with you. I'll also make it work. You might give me an hour or two and I'll probably still give you like your full one on one time. It's just like you gotta give me time though. I have a full
schedule.
So yeah, you definitely have a full schedule. Okay. Um Zach Coles. Thanks for handling those questions. Let's go to our lightning round. You ready? Yeah. Okay. Best athlete you've ever worked with and why Don't say John Wall. It's gotta, I have to say him John Wall. Um, great athlete and a better community. Um, what made him a great athlete?
What could he do so well, so much better than anyone else he worked with? I think everyone knows he's fast as
shit. He works even though he might have like, uh, just the, I know. I think that a lot of people portray him differently. He works super hard. Puts in hours that people just don't see. Um, and just his, his skill set with the ball and just his love for the game.
Like not only like he would like, obviously if it plays the game, but I would watch him re rewatch all the games from the day before, like as if he's watching film, I'll make you as big on the film, but he didn't, he didn't. He would rewatch sometimes every game twice. So this, this man loved, I think, loved the sport more than, and I firsthand saw it, was with him every single day, eight to 10 hours, loved the game, would be rewatched again.
Sometimes, some games, once, twice, just constantly watching, studying, just.
Now, now you, you traveled with him, right? You were his personal physio. Right. Um, how did that work with the team? When did you get time to work with them? Um, every day,
in short, and every single day, I think that, you know, that I collaborated with the team very well.
We know what I was doing with them, what they were doing with them, with a player like that too. I mean, it's not, there's got tons of guys, especially big contract basketball guys. They have their own person or quarterbacks. They have their own person and just literally, I think this goes back to very, very, very beginning, taking you go away And you work collaboratively.
I mean, it helps me. It helps them. I can learn a lot from them. They don't always have all the time in the world for as much attention at a high level out there, like a high contract guy, So that's where I can help out as well and do some things that they don't have time for and, and vice versa. Um, but yeah, I mean, I was, I mean, traveling with us and right, pretty much, pretty much right next door to home.
I say the city, if not in an exact same house and then traveling just in the team motel. So, and can be in flying with the team. Not during COVID. No, it was during COVID. So, um, couldn't get credentialed during that time. So I was playing separate, but I would go to the same team hotel.
Um, okay. That sounds like an unbelievable experience.
Who is the best PT on the planet, not named Zach Coles and don't say your business partner. Stefan Valdez. I know you don't want the answer, but he's Okay. If it's not Stefan Valdez and it's not Zach Coles, who is it? I'm just sticking myself on. Okay. Um, okay. What are you currently reading and what is your favorite book of all time?
That
answer. I don't have too much for you. I mean, and that's probably sounds bad. I don't have much time, but it's Wayne. You said you're always learning. Always learning. Yeah. I mean, I do read online, but between being in here so often, all still the, that the admin side online, online programming side of the whole online, separate online business as well, as far as online programming for training and rehab.
I don't have many free minutes in my day to be dead honest with you. So I don't have a straightforward answer for you there.
Fine. Before you opened your own business, a book that changed your life. I'm trying to educate my audience here, Zach. Man, if I
had one for you, I would tell you I've never been a big reader.
I listen to the Joe, I mean, when I drive, I listen to the Joe Rogan podcast. And that's probably the best thing I got for you.
Your favorite Joe Rogan guest. Favorite Joe Rogan. Yes. Come on. Give me something.
Oh, man. He has so many good ones. I don't, uh, I like the, uh, Ways to Well. Um, I can't think of his name off the top of my head but I, I love his company a lot.
Yeah, he, he's pretty impressive. Um, I know I've sent the athletes down to his clinic as well. Um, What is his name? Let's start with a B. I
could probably, um, I don't know why I'm blanking on it, but um, I think he's been on there twice and I've, um, I usually re listen to his stuff as far as like his background and working in insurance and it's all interesting stuff to me.
It's, it's fascinating to me. And he, um, uh, that the first pod, he goes into how he got to where he is and the mess that is our medical system and how influenced it is by the, the pill pushers. I think it's a, it's a must listen. So I think that's worthwhile. I would also recommend Andrew Berenson. He is awesome on there.
So is Dr. Robert Malone. Great guests. Um, I just heard Adam Sandler on there. Who's a personal hero of mine. Did you like that one? I'm listening. I'm like halfway through it. And yeah, I sit there. It's good. I sit
down. I'm like halfway through that
podcast right now. Um, he, so it's good. They talk a little bit too much about, about standup and like the art of standup.
I kind of want to like, I want to hear what it was like on, um, like, what was it like on the set of Billy Madison? Like how are you keeping the Gilmore? Yes. Okay. If you had to choose, if you had to choose one Adam Sandler movie, favorite Adam Sandler movie. Oh, let's
see. I have to go more. I like
that. Better than Billy Madison.
The guy's name is Brigham Bueller, by the way. Thank God. I would not have been there. It is.
Yeah.
Um, I guess a better, but I,
I've, I've seen many MCF and they're both right there. Okay, water boy. I, I love water boy is way below those two.
I did. I love all out and selling movies that are funny and shit. I love that.
Um, okay. Tell us, um, Zach, how do we find you on Instagram? Who do you want to hear from? Tell us about best ways to get in touch with you
and best. You can shoot me a message. I mean, my username is just my name. Just dr. Zach Kohl's. I'm sorry. Dr. Zach Kohl's. It's the best way. I usually end up every day. I go through all my messages.
If I don't within a day or two, I usually be sure to stay on top of that. And hear from anyone questions, students, other PTs. I, I get messages from, again, with all my business people, all over the country. I promise. It's also all over the country. So, um, uh, yeah, feel free to reach out. It can really be anyone.
Awesome. Zach, you have been a pleasure. Well worth the wait. So thank you so much for being on the true sports pod. We're going to stay in regular touch. I really appreciate your time, man. Thank you, man. I really do appreciate it. Absolutely. Made it happen. Hell yeah. Glad you made it happen. We'll talk soon, Zach.
Thank you, man. All right. All right, brother. Take care. See you guys.
Get appointment updates, practical and actionable health + fitness tips, blog news, and True Sports announcements delivered straight to your inbox. No spam.
