October 3 2024
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Welcome to the True Sports Physical Therapy Podcast with your host, Dr. Yoni Rosenblatt. Today, we sit down with Jack Rasmussen, founder of Caddis Cleats, to discuss building a business and decreasing non contact injuries with the revolutionary cleats. Jack shares the journey behind creating Cadiz Cleats, a product designed to revolutionize aesthetic footwear and reduce the risk of non contact injuries like ACL injuries.Tune in to hear Jack's insights on the intersection of entrepreneurship, innovation, and injury prevention. Whether you're a sport enthusiast, healthcare professional, or entrepreneur, this episode is packed with valuable takeaways. Let's jump right in. Welcome back to the true sports physical therapy podcast.Jack Rasmussen is back, uh, for his second iteration. And the reason I wanted to have you back on as the founder of Caddix cleats is you guys have been up to so much this last, I think it's been like four months since I had you on. Um, and it's like a totally different company when I had you on last. You guys had some ideas, you had a shoe, we were talking about putting the cleat on some people, and now this thing has skyrocketed and gone bonkers.So let's start with, give me a brief overview of what Cadix is as if no one heard our first version, how you came to it, and then tell me about what you've been up to the last four months. Um, can I actually make cleats and studs flex in any direction and that flexion point has proven to reduce the rotational force from the ground up that causes a ton of ankle and knee injury, knee injuries and potentially hip injuries.And I don't want to get into the nitty gritty details of my story because you know, it's very long. Get into it. Get it. Give me the highlights. Um, my dad and I were watching a game 10 years ago. Someone went down, non contact situation. We were like, that doesn't look right. Let's do something about it. Um, as a college dropout, as an advertiser, we were like, we can figure this out.I'm sure you can figure it out. Um, so yeah, just a lot of hard work and luck and a lot of people who are smart enough surrounding us. Um, just a lot of going for it, but, you know, studied biomechanics and physics for a year, taught myself everything I need to know. Um, a lot of mad scientist moments. Um, the front of the first iteration was, was not studs.It was more like a shoe sole. It was kind of flex and it was layered and those layers each had a job to do in terms of how it moved. And it was going to be regular cleats, but the sole moved. Correct. Okay. But we realized that kind of from a manufacturing standpoint, that breaks the protocol. And it compromises stack.How you can't have it too thick. So it can't be too heavy. There's a lot of intricacies in footwear that we don't realize. Where'd you find the data information? Um, so we have a team in Oregon and they're called eye generator. They're like, uh, I call them a shoe gurus. I don't think they like that very much.I mean, they've been working in the industry for decades, like with the, with the big dogs, Nike, Adidas, Honor, Puma. Um, so I came to them with this idea during, uh, after, after I wrote the patent, after we got approved, after I raised a little bit of money during COVID, I found I was like, this is my idea. And they're like, we're not going to do that.I'm like, please. And then they said, if we can take my functionality and implant it in the studs, then we could talk. So they kind of figured out how to do that. And, um, they were the one that told us about all the stuff, all the stack height, all the, all the nuances that we had no idea. I mean, you don't, you don't know until you know.They, they work in just shoes. Yeah. Okay. So, so they know everything about shoes. Why'd they originally say, get the hell out of here? Is it cause you were a housekeeper? Just, you look like a housekeeper.So they said no, because it just, it just, it was kind of impractical. My first version was impractical. It just was. But then they said, if we can take what you want to do and put it in studs, That won't break any manufacturing protocol. It'll be easier, quote, unquote, easier, not easy, but easier. And it'll make more sense to people.So. Okay. So, so you have that idea to get movable studs. That was your idea. Once they tell you, Hey, the sole thing's not going to work. So I think I, doyou have any background in this crap? Nothing. You're like, this might work. Here's a notebook. Let me. Okay. So, so then how long does it take to get to this? So 10 years, but five years of that was so, so my dad and I wrote the first patent when I was like 19 and that took until four and a half years later to get approved.I couldn't do anything while I was getting looked over. I couldn't raise money. I mean, you don't, you don't have proof of patent or data and you can't do anything with it. So it wasn't until 2019 in August where I got approved and I was like, okay, now I can do this. So then I started raising money and then kind of getting tested at universities out West and just kind of, Getting into this industry.So I'd say it took a total of five years without that. That's significant break Okay, so so five years you're kind of spitballing putting stuff together How do you how do you how do you take your idea and make it an actual show? um obsession, I mean Who makes who makes the show So you went over there? I didn't go over there.So the team, iGenerator, they're, they're the, they're the MVPs of this whole thing. They really are. Okay. I'm just a psycho with an idea like those guys make it happen on all fronts. In my opinion, um, they have manufacturing in Hong Kong and everywhere else, but they have an employee in China who works directly with the manufacturer, the factory itself.So that's who makes our stuff. And that's, that's, who's always made our samples and prototypes. Okay. What is going to prevent someone in Hong Kong being like, Seems like a good idea. It's getting some traction. Let me make a stride right version. It's going to happen. Yeah, for sure. Okay. So this is my thing is that, well, first of all, our legal counsel, he was the head of Adidas legal counsel.He knows what he's doing. How did you get that guy? iGenerator man. iGenerator. Okay. Everyone lives in Portland and that's like the shoe capital of the world. So, um, he locked up our patents very well. And then it is going to happen, but this isn't a t shirt you can rip off. It's not just a design, it's functional.So you have to understand how to do this and how to make it work, how to make it last and not break. It's not just a pocket t shirt you can rip off. Yeah. So there's a bit more thinking behind it. Okay. So, so now I'm holding one in my hands and It looks, the top looks, the truth is the whole thing looks like any cleat.The difference is the bottom studs have a little bit of give. So I'm digging on it with my thumb and you can see it moving a little bit and I got to push really hard. So how much movement is in here? And then walk me through what you know, it changes biomechanically up the chain. Yeah. So the movement that you're feeling now is called degrees of flexion.Any direction. Okay. Um, and that was tested in a biomechanics lab and that actually proved to reduce rotational force from the ground up. So before the force propagates to the knee and the hip, it just dies at the ground. And you, you knew that it, you ran the studies first and said, okay, we gotta get this thing to 12.Uh, no, but 12 was the, the sweet spot. Okay. So my first. My first idea was to have different rigidity settings for different athletes. So like my little sister wouldn't use the heaviest one, but Ray Lewis would. You know what I'm saying? So that's kind of specific in that way. But this is the sweetspot that tested the best.Okay. So, so here's what, tell me exactly what you know, what you have run studies on to explain how this cleat works. Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, everyone's seen an NACL tear. If you watch sports, you've seen someone, if you're listening to this pod, you've seen a million ACL tears. Yep. Um, when you get stuck in the ground and that valgus position comes up and you're, you got foot diversion and that's, I mean, everything, just every mechanism possible you need for ACL tears happening.You can't move. That's the reason it happens. You're stuck. This just sets you free. That's it. It just gives you enough motion that you're no longer locked in. Just get away from the ground. And then so if I'm an elite level athlete, which I'm not. You are. I'm a thank you. I'm worried. He's going to put me on ice skates.Like I'm going to feel like I'm sloshing around. So how did you, uh, work through what number one, that barrier. And then talk to me about, because I think this is maybe the biggest change that you've seen in the last four months. Um, how do you know that it doesn't feel like that? So we tested the performance at another university out west and they did a bunch of, you know, 10, 18 machines.Sure. Yeah, they did on that. They did pretty much like a pro pro day style training, a bunch of different drills, L drills, con drills, whatever. And test our creates compared to other creates like the other Nike, Adidas, whatever, there's not a millisecond slower. It's exactly the same. So performance is the same.And then you already had, um, anecdotal data from athletes saying what? So, I mean, you just moved it with your fingers. Yep. That's like a novel. That's a bit daunting. I understand that, but that is not enough for us to feel it. Six three. Yeah, good for you. Yeah, thanks. Um, you're six and a half feet away from the ground essentially, you can't feel that, there's no way you can feel that.And people run on them and they don't feel it at all. We actually tested it. Um, he wants to go with the high school team. I actually brought some peers out and they worked out in practice. They hadn't heard of us. We hadn't blown up yet. And they're like, I like these kids. They're very comfortable. I'm like, cool.Do you know that these can move? And then blown away. They had no idea. Interesting. Okay. And, and I'll say, here's my anecdotal, uh, testimony is I took it and put it on professional football players and we went to the field. Um, these are guys that you see playing every Sunday. They had no idea, um, that those cleats moved.And then afterwards I explained to them why it matters, you know, and they loved number one, they said they felt a little freer. Um, so that kind of lines up with what it is you're trying to accomplish. They also love the grip of the cleat. Like they found it to be not the grip of the soles, but the way the shoe hugs your foot was some of the feedback I got.Generally speaking, it's kind of suck. I mean, like they're just uncomfortable. They're rigid. They're not, they're not anatomically correct. Yeah. We load listing with padding made a little wider for people. So, I mean, that's, that's what you want. You don't want to have to dread putting them all. I get a wine that does, it should be.Almost a break for your feet. Yup. Yup. And, and so that's definitely unique. That's definitely some of the feedback that I got specifically around the cushioning and the way it hugs your foot. So that's, that's, that's awesome that you've kind of gotten there. Cause one of the things you told me not to talk about in the last pod that now we're okay, now it's kosher to talk about, to use a phrase that I love using is, um, it's some of the investments.So I'm interested in this on the business side. Um, Because obviously you need money to create this startup. Just walk me through over archingly, how it is you got money and then some of your bigger investors. Yeah. So I, I brought in, I mean, less than a hundred thousand years ago, because I knew what this thing was going to be and I wanted to get people involved.Um, and that paid for some research and development and then. Recently we had a video go viral in January. We've got like 4 million views every night. And we, I mean, every day I had a hundred emails to answer. And one of those emails, the name was Todd Heap. And I was like, there's no way that's my child.It's a different Todd Heap. Yeah. And I respond to him. I said, Hey man, like I'd be happy to talk about the cleats. Um, my numbers, my signatures can be called if you want to know anything. And then I said, Hey, this is you, by the way, I'm a big fan. I'm from Baltimore, like big fan. He immediately texts me and goes, ha, ha, ha.It's me. I'll call you soon. I'm like, Oh, that's sick. So he's a big clique guy. And, um, he said he's interested because he had a Delta where they're going to tear his third year in the league, which actually prevented him from making the third pro ball in a row, which he was one of the best that ends, but that kind of altered his career for the worst.And he got stuck in the ground and there was nothing to give. So he blew out his stuff. Um, we used to go by, we're talking, he's like, if you're ever in Phoenix, I'm like, I'm always in Phoenix. I'm never, I'm not, but I was in Denver at the time. And I just put a few of them out there and say, Hey, Todd, we're going on Friday.And it was like, one thing that he's like, nothing, let's get lunch. I'm like, for sure. But we got in my car and drove 13 hours to get lunch with Todd. That kind of like solidified it. And I said, Hey man, what if he made us like a Baltimore thing? We made it as a Maryland thing. Like you pay for Baltimore. He goes, my best friends are, uh, Dennis and, uh, Joe still.I'm like, Dennis Pitt and Joe Clark. I've heard of them. He goes, yeah, man. So we all get on the call. Um, Dennis and Todd end up being financially involved and also as advisors. And then we kind of used Joe, um, as like a, not a test subject, but like, Hey, where did you see me? Like, hasn't taken them off. I mean, I've played his games and then last week and this week.Okay. Is that the first time he's worn them in the end of, in an NFL game? Two weeks. Uh, so not this past game, the series ago, but the week before that, when Richardson went down, he came in and he didn't wear them. Okay. So he didn't wear them last year. No. Um, and is that because he wasn't allowed to? So he's.Dylan allowed to, um, you, you only wear a Nike release and NFL, and if you were a different clique has to be tested by the NFL, um, health and safety. And I'll, I'll touch on that later, but you can't have logos in your cleats. Really good. Fine. So what we did, we made Joe Flacco pair. Kind of blacked out the whole shoe, so you can't tell what it's, yep.Um, but speaking of NFL, they actually called me two weeks ago and said, Hey, we're getting a lot of calls, Larry Cleats who call, okay, what does that mean? When the NFL calls, who calls Roger Goodell? Hey, is this Jack? No, it was health and safety. Okay. They said players, trainers, equipment guys, and everyone's called by the cleats.Like there's so much demand. We need to test this cleat so they can wear them. I think it's a great idea. Yeah. I think it's cool. It's actually long overdue. Yeah. So they're doing that right now. So hopefully they'll be able to wear them in a few weeks. And what we've done is that we've kind of made custom cleats for different teams.So if you have to have no logos and you have to have the same color as your team, that's like a crazy fine. Okay. We don't want to pay. So we make custom it's for the bubblers who are, they'll be kind of wearing pretty soon. So. Yeah, it's, I mean, man, it's like a different company from last time. It's crazy.It's crazy. Okay. So what's your vision for where you want to take this? That's a tricky question. Cause I don't, I mean, I just want to get these on people's feet. I like you take financial incentive out of this. Like I just want this to help the problem that we've been looking at for decades that no one's done anything to try to solve.I think it's wrong. Arguably we're worse at it. For sure. Okay. So, I mean, if that's going with a bigger company, if that's making this company go for 20, 30 years, if it's, I mean, I don't know, I just want to get this on. Cause there are people who want to wear this cleat because they've experienced an ACL tear.Then there are people who want to wear this because they don't want to experience ACL or injury or something like that. And there are people who just want to wear them because one, they feel better. They're made for athletes and they reduce strain off your ligaments, no matter if you have an injury or not.So I think all of those combined is reason enough to just try to get it out and make people as we can because no matter what it will help. Yeah. Well, it's crazy because I work with a lot of pro athletes and I'll bring it up to them or at least in the last four months, I brought it up to them because I'm so excited about the technology.And to your point, we run tons of ACL prevention clinics and workshops. Um, and more and more people are tearing their ACLs, right? So I could see this as a game changer, so I'll bring it up to them. But now in the last four months, probably because of your social media presence. Um, uh, people are coming up to me.Hey, I saw your pod with that guy, Jack, and what's that cleat called? Caddix cleat. Do you think that would be good for my, these are like 30 year old dudes who just kind of, so, so the market is massive. Really? Your market is anyone who puts on a cleat period. So, but what's your game plan to get them on everyone's.Foot because last we spoke you had two sports you were going after it was going to be a slow rollout So we're talk me through where we are with thatOkay, how long have they been in the air a couple days, okay, it's a long flight No, but they're coming right now and then we're gonna release all the inventory in december So we have a pre sale list sign up. We got a few thousand people signed up already on the website um Like you said, like a 30 year old to play like this is for athletes and people who think they're sure like it's just if you're going to play, you might as well do it because at that age, at that training level, like you're probably more susceptible.I know you are because you're not training, taking preventive measures. So, I mean, we're rolling out men's football, women's soccer slash women's lacrosse this December, and then we already started making men's soccer for next year. And then different iteration of our, uh, kind of mid football cleat. We're going to do some alignment stuff as well.Okay. So what's the difference between, what's the difference in manufacturing cleats for those segments? Um, so actually lacrosse cleats don't really exist. I don't know if you know that or not. Yeah. I mean, I know New Balance has, I think what they'll say is a lacrosse cleat, but it's a, it's a football cleat.It's the same thing. All that's marked. But if you make them correctly, they can be for both. Yep. That's what I'm saying. So, um, I mean, there's, there's not, there's not difference at all in terms of across soccer, football. Yeah. Um, so, okay. So basically fields, you're going to cover field sports. Talk to me about baseball.Cause I know those are unique. Yeah. Well, it depends what you play on baseball. Cause they report the studs. We're trying to figure out, but she figuredthis crap out. This nonsense. Yes. This nonsense. You can figure anything out. Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, baseball is baseball. It's great. And like, especially softball. It's like, I just, I mean, every single person, like, Quarterback, I mean, football wise, the quarterback is the rotational athlete, and so is the kicker, who cares about kickers, you know what I mean?But softball, easy. Sorry. But softball, everyone's a rotational athlete. Everyone has to throw their hip around. So like, that's kind of, I mean, same with baseball too, is that that's kind of where this is headed. If you're doing the motion that suggests you should tear your CL, you should probably put something on it that might prevent it.Okay. Well talk to me about price point. Okay. So men's football is 125. Is 125? 225. 225. And how does that compare? To your standard Nike. The high end cleats are around that. They are, you can get cleats for cheaper and they're not as well made. Um, and then women's soccer is 250, which high end soccer cleats are close to 300.Okay. So you're a little bit under. Yeah. And they don't do anything for them. They just, they just, they're just there. Yep. They're just there. So now, I mean, People would pay more to wear a more comfortable cleat with no functionality. This is a more comfortable cleat that's better made and it has functionality that's preventative.Yeah, now we've talked about this a lot. This is my science brain talking. Um, is there any chance that you run a study, um, along Duration study where you can look at previous injury rates for a given Subset and then compare them when they're in caddix won't be the same athletes, but it'll be the same demographicThe overall scope of what happens crazy because it's tough to quantify. There's so many variables that need to be Yeah conditions training regimens. There's so many variables that go into that. But I think ultimately that's kind of going to be That's going to different differentiate this from a cleat or a helmet.Yeah. Is it a beautiful way or is it mandated because it actually works on the masses? So that's, yeah, that, that's kind of interesting. Cause now you're starting to see, you see the NFL mandating what type of helmet. Right. Um, so could, could there be a world where they start to mandate some type of footwear?That would make sense and make you a ton of money. Um, but also help a ton of people. Um, so, so. I love the idea of that and kind of where that would go. Hey guys, quick pause and a quick shout out to this new masterclass that we just launched here at True Sports Physical Therapy. Myself and Dr. Tim Stone put together.A masterclass of ACL rehab, and we call it from table to turf. And the reason we call it that is because it's going to teach you exactly how to get your athlete all the way from post op day one, with the nitty gritty of regaining all of that range of motion with the tips and the tricks that we use here at true sports physiotherapy, that gets our athletes.Better, faster and stronger. And that's early. And then how do you progress that athlete all the way onto the field with a ball in their foot or stick in their hands or whatever their sport is and teach them how to accelerate, how to decel, how to change direction, all the mechanics that go in there, what drills do we use?To get our athletes exactly where they need to be back on the field and even better than before injury. And I want you to sign up for that class. Now you can find it on our website. You can shoot us a direct message and just say, Hey, send me the course. It's right now on sale. So make sure you sign up now.It is fully accredited to get you all of your continuing education hours. Sign up for the true sports masterclass ACL from table to turf. Thanks guys. What's, walk me through like the next two years. The next two years, I mean, we're, we're going to branch out. I mean, it's been four months since you and I talked.And it's, it's, we've, I want to say quadruple our busyness, if that makes sense. Yeah, well, don't talk to me about business. Talk to me about business. What, I don't even know if you know what that means. I don't, here's what, here's what I mean by that. Revenues. Mm. Profit generation, like how much have, has that grown?Like anyone can sell a cleat, but can you sell a cleat at a profit? So our margins are getting not better because we're making custom things for them, which by the way is free marketing. So that trickles down to sales. So it's just. It just depends if we keep going the way we're going and if we're approved and making about the masses for the nfl And pro lacrosse and the nwsl That's a different story.There's like 15 different ways the next two years could go. Yeah, I think two of them are ideal I think they're all positive. I just I mean Yeah, you have to sell pizza to make a profit, but it's also how you make them and where, where people are buying them. So what's your plan there? How are you going to distribute these?Right now you have a few thousand pre sold, right? Or at least people are on your wait list. So do you picture walking into Dick's and being able to buy these off the shelf or do you picture this straight to consumer? I think eventually Dick's is the way to go. Like physical retail. But right now we're direct to consumer and it's I mean, people don't go to stores, right?I think it's on Amazon starting to do these days, but I think this should be in stores. So, so a parent can go look at it and say, Oh, that makes sense. It was, I get it. You know what I mean? So I think that's the way to go down the road, probably next year, late next year. But do you think there's an avenue where it would help sales if you put them on athletes in store and, and there's a turf field?SoIf we have like people are nervous about that movement and Todd was like, just put them on. Right. It'll all make sense. Yep. Yeah. So I think, I think having the ability and access to where them is going to be really important. You know who has a lot of turf? No. True Sports. Oh, really? We have a lot. Yeah. We have a lot of turf.Like put this in P. T. 's hands. I'm You've already given me a pair, but, but, um, I love that idea because we got patients coming out of ACLs. They'll hear this pod or they're, they're, they will hear me running my mouth about this and they're like, why am I not wearing those? Well, they're not out until, or they're only in these sizes.You're going to get rid of those barriers come December. You're going to have all sizes? So that's amazing. I think I love the idea of the distribution network that PTs could provide you or strength coaches or athletic trainers. Like there's so much that they can kind of do. A good majority of who reaches out to us every day through direct message, LinkedIn email, our PTs, our strength coaches are people like this.They have that. Channel to customers. So, yeah, I'm not, I'll be happy to provide all big deals with this. But you first. Thank you. I appreciate that. Um, okay. Now you have a couple NFL legends. I'll call Joe Flacco that I'll call Todd. He that we should definitely go to a flag. Is he elite? Okay. That was a Baltimore reference.Yes, yes, yes. They're very different podcasts. Um, He is elite. So, okay, you have, you have that guy involved. Then if the NFL is starting to test it, if they, let's say they, they say, Jack, we want to put this on every single athlete. Your sales are going to be bananas. Are you ready for that? Is there any reservation to like how you roll something like that out?Are you ready for that type of scale? That scale? Yeah. That NFL, that scale. Numbers wise. Yes. Yeah. How do you do that? How do you manage inventory like that? Very carefully. Good answer. Uh, precisely. I mean, you don't like, I think the problem with shoe companies is that they just want to have better margins.So they just, they just order millions of cleats. Yeah, but then they have to sell them all at a discounted rate. So like, I mean, I don't know, that's something very exclusive about going to a website and seeing that they're sold out. Yep, for sure. So I think we order, order as needed, unless yeah, yeah, we need thousands.Yep. I mean, I just think you do it appropriately. Like when I, when I watch Shark Tank, um, Damon John is always talking about the way he manages inventory and how it's, you need years and years of experience to figure out how to manage inventory based upon purchaser demand. Right. How do you go about that with a startup?Yeah. I mean, at some point you're kind of guessing, like, let's just call it what it is, especially in a startup, especially a startup with such a few sales, we've had no inventory, you kind of have to guess. I mean, you can, it's natural to get a guess for sure, but it is a guess. So I think what will be very indicative moving forward is how we sell these 6, 000 leads that are on the way right now.I think if we, if they go overnight or over a week, we're like, Oh, Okay. We got to order 12 next time. Sure. We should probably double or triple it. And then we implement men's soccer. And then that's, I mean, it's, it's, it's a little bit of a guess, but it's all kind of based on what you do first and what we're about to do first is it's going to kind of give us a good path.Okay. That's well, that's awesome. Talk to me about men's soccer. Like when you go to attack a niche, what's your game plan there? You get like you did with football where you get a guy like Pitta and heap to vouch for it. How do you roll it out into a new sport? You gotta find a person, you gotta find a, like, like we did at Women's Suffrage, there's articles, K.C. Curran. You find a person that believes in it, has worn it, can relate to it. I'm like a visceral, like, I had an ACL injury level, and they, they're the spokesperson, and they're at the platform, they have the audience that you need that I don't have. Yeah. Um, So, yeah, I think going after one or two people that could help us push this thing with ease is how you do it.And also you just kind of get cleats to anyone you can, like for the first four months, man, like we just sent cleats to everybody. Yes, I can attest to that. They don't even know where, like, we just were like, Hey, they're in the mail. Yeah. If you want them, they're yours. Yeah. I think it's just getting, getting your product in front of as many eyes as possible, whether it's through one person or just blindly sending to people, hoping it goes to the best.I mean, that's kind of, Let's start. Let's talk about one. Yeah. Yeah. Um, talk to me about who runs the science side of Caddix. Um, so we have a medical advisor, dr Kirk McCullough. He was with the Kansas City Chiefs, Casey Curran, Casey Sporting, and now he's the physician of the US men's national soccer team.Sick. Yeah, I know. I agree. Yeah. Um, he's our medical advisor and like he kind of is the, he, he legitimizes us so much. Yeah. I can talk to you about biomechanics up until this point and then Kirk. And then Kirk comes in. So I think he, I mean, there's like five people in the world I would trust with this job.And he's one of them. Cause I remember, I remember writing the patent. I was 19 and I remember recognizing his name on a patent. I had a reference in my own. So he just, this is his real house. It's his world. And I think he brings so much. Legitimacy to the table with his resume of his career and industry experience that he's, I mean, the science side is just like, just call Dr.McCullough, please. Okay. So if I, if I had Dr. McCullough here, we gotta do that one day. If I had Dr. McCullough here, could he tell me how, how much this decreases the chances you, Terry, ACL. I don't think anybody can tell you that, man. I don't think anybody can say that. I, I don't, what could he tell me for sure?He can tell you that it will work. It will work how? It will decrease the rotational force responsible for all the nasty stuff you see. I think that, that's really strong. And then you did a good job of explaining to this to me in the past. How does he know that? So there's, There are machines, the NFL, that the shoe.Describe that machine as best you can.It's like this square apparatus and the middle of it is a post and it attaches to what's called a buck, which is like a shoe socks, essentially. And you can put whatever amount of. Axial load. You want, like, it can be, it's like, it's really played. So there's usually plates and you twist it and rip it and try to break it.And it's like weird to watch because you're assuming it's someone's leg and he kind of is, but it's a, you know, they also use cadavers too, which is disgusting, but that is, you know, fees into this computer software or whatever. And it kind of shows you like when, when the releases, so like, when does it, when does the cleats slip or release from the actual surface?Okay. So I've seen the studies of all the cleats, um, and ours, even with, with the last iteration we had, even with an old school plate and not optimal set orientation and length, ours still release faster. I mean, cause there's like a neuromuscular connection you have with injury, and you realize too late that you're in danger and this just sets you free before you can do anything because you can't do it fast enough.Um, okay. So, so that's fascinating. So they took your cleat, put it on a cadaver or put it on this machine. Um, and they determined that it decreases the force traveling up your kinetic chain, 12 fold. Did I make that up? I think you did. Okay, it decreases it by how much? That's the number. There's so many conditions at play in parts, I mean.If I put a Nike cleat on that apparatus, how does it differ from this one? Uh, it won't release as fast. Okay, and define release again for me? Just, uh, Which is a positive in this instance. Yeah. Okay. I mean, you might fall, but you won't be out. Nine months on a good day. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, okay. So that, that makes a lot of sense.How do you put that into your marketing? It's tough because like there's a, there's a serious gap in terms of stuff. Yep. So trying to not, I don't want to say dumb it down offending, but like dumb it down to people are like, Oh, it makes sense. Yep. The social media guy is sitting two feet to my left. Yeah.He's good at taking. Data and numbers and kind of translating them into words. People understand on a very basic level. Um, and again, I'm trying to find anybody, but like, if you don't know this, you don't know this. No, but you can say it decreases forces through your body to hopefully decrease injury. Yeah, absolutely.And I think. I think we had a video one time, you can grant social media guy, but he was, he was like planting in the position of an ACL tear and that kind of sparked this like, Oh, that's what it does. I understand why it moves now. Yeah, you'll have to see it plain sight. And I totally get it. It's, it's a bizarre concept to think about because this, these have not been debated in decades.Yeah. So, okay. So I think I asked you last time, but it bears repeating. Is there any worry that these make athletes perform? Better and therefore an NFL might look at it just like they say, you can't build up the soul too high in a basketball shoe because it might make you too tall or something like that, where the NFL can say this is an unfair advantage to guys who wear, I wouldn't call it a word, but I'd say there's There might be potential at some point, this could be viewed as performance enhancing.I will say that. I mean, because if you think about what the elastic nature of our studs do, they, they alleviate force and then they return force. Yeah. That return force would be propelling someone in a certain direction or move or it's like a curved track almost. I mean, the, so that, that's a good analogy.The, the good news is when you ran these performance studies.Yeah, and I think too like, I don't want to call it a placebo, it does work. But performance wise, placebo, we tested these with the quarterbacks. They throw and they said they feel it because their hip more through and they get more like whipped. And that makes sense to me for sure. And I would like to call it performance enhancing.Yeah. Thank you. Probably not, but we haven't measured the velocity of a throw and all that stuff in the distance, we just measured linear, lateral, I mean, so, I, I think there's a lot more stuff we can do with that to try to get to that number and that exact answer, but for right now I'd say, I'd say, No, good answer.I would love to see this thing on pictures. I would love to see this, what this does to a fastball. Imean, cause like I said, it gives, it leaves force and then it has to return it. Yeah. So, so that's interesting. I also wonder what it would do to stress on an elbow, if anything. Maybe nothing, but, but if you're able to rotate cleaner and create at least a freer motion from your lower body, we know that translates to your upper body when you're throwing a pitch.We know that when the elbow runs out of elasticity, that ligament ruptures your UCL. So I just, I wonder what that would do Thought is if you get more hip into your throat with these things, you get less elbow. I, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Okay. Um, I, I would, I would think it would be a positive, especially if the athlete isn't reporting any negative.So that's kind of interesting. It's a little far away from the elbow joint, but, but I, I've taken so many baseball courses where all we do is talk about foot ankle mechanics as it pertains to pitching. So, so there's definitely crossover there. Um, that's really interesting. What is, you said you're not worried about the performance side.What is your biggest fear with caddix right now?I mean, in the back of your mind, as a, as a small business owner, you always squash you. But I will say this we're pissing a lot of people off. We are in a good way because we're actually doing something. And like, I think companies would love to sue Jack Rasmussen, but companies would never sue Todd Heave and Dennis Pippa and Kayla Sharp.What would they possibly sue you for? Well, just don't find something they always do. But I think ultimately that that safety net that we brought in as investors and advisors, like that's going to be, it's going to be worth more than we can imagine. Have you had to, or gotten to say no to any professional athlete investors?Yeah. And what made you do that? Um, so just time, time and Dennis and Caleb bought it at a time where we weren't who we are today. And that, that is, that is, you know what I mean? That is, and they saw it for what it is. And all three of them had injuries that altered their career. And now that we triple our followers, now that we've had sales, now that we have professional athletes, when everyone.Everyone wants to be a part of it. We had a call three days ago with someone. We were, we just say, no, he's a quarterback and he's a current quarterback in the NFL and we just say no, like, yeah. And we didn't like, didn't want to be like, what do we just do? We just say no to this guy. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, everyone wants to get involved now that the nitty gritty stuff is almost done, you know, but no Todd and Dennis and Kayla, like.That's who we're rocking with. When they, when they write the book, Cleet Dog, about you, What, what story am I going to be shocked to see in that?I already mentioned the housekeeping, so it can't be that. Well, so, Lately you called me out. Um, I don't know man, like, It's, it's, it's, this is the very like, By any means, I bought a brand new car in May and I hit 19, 000 miles last week, because I drove in the country for the past four months. Doing what?Handing them out? Showing people cleats, going to colleges, talking to pros, like everything. So this is, this is a good follow up as an entrepreneur myself. How did you kick down those doors? Like, how'd you get McCullough? McCullough? Yeah. How'd you get McCullough? Heap came to you. But how did you get these guys, someone, to actually listen to you?Well, I think it's, I mean, Heap came to me, yeah, but I also drove 13 hours to get lunch with him. You did? For sure. Like, I mean, I think seeing my level of commitment. Like I'm absolutely a psycho. Like you have to be, you have to be curb is actually easy. I, you know, once we got a phone call and it took me three months of negotiating with him to get on board, which is an easy, is an easy sell for us.Um, but I mean, uh, for example, like Pat McAfee there today had Joe Flacco on, and before Joe came on, he was talking about our cleats and actually goes, yeah, they, they sent us a pair or two and we're like, So Grant and I got in my car and we found his address and we drove to the studio that day from Kansas City and we sat outside his gate and gave him a pair of cleats.What'd he say? Well, we gave it to his, uh, because he didn't, he like put it out the back way because he saw us standing there. But like, that's, that's what you have to do. Like that's kicking the door down. You have to. Um, I love that. So, um, What was Flacco saying to him about the cleat? Um, so I guess Pat just kind of had heard I mean Flacco went viral wearing the cleats every day when someone posted about it So, um, I guess Pat was kind of asking him about it and Joe was like, I mean, it was a good idea Like it just reduces stress Joe's just like a super cool guy.Yeah, just talking about it Um, but I was like, it prevents Achilles injuries and I gotta get a pair of cleats. Yeah. This is going to be bad for us. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, and then they had like pictures and videos of him wearing the cleats and just, just like, it was good. It was great for us for sure.But I want to make sure they have a pair in the studio so they can look at it and talk about it and kind of see it. Who's the most famous. ACL rupture in the last three years. Uh, I don't know if it's three or four years. Okay. Great call. Yeah. How Odell Beckham? Imean, so I will say this, this is another, another reason that Todd Dennis is so big is because they're a phone call away from anybody. Yeah, sure. In that world. Yeah, for sure. Um, and that's just, I mean, That's just networking. And, but the thing is with these athletes, they got the right time, their schedules, their game, their travel and everything.So not to give them the right time. Yeah. Okay. So, but that's true. I'm just trying to like bring it home, especially, you know, we're talking to an audience of sports PTs, so it's worthwhile, like hearing the science behind it. It's worthwhile hearing the business behind it. Because so much of your story resonates with me from what I had to go through to start what I'm doing.Um, but when we go to market to orthopedists, even by the way, athletes, very similar, you have to be super strategic with how you do it. And orthopedic, I'm sure McCullough would say this, orthopedists are like the busiest people in the world. Um, professional athletes think they're the busiest people in the world.So it's like, how do you find that right time to hit them when they're going to hear you? You go after them at all times, and you figure out which one works. That's what we've done. And what have you found that works? That's a good answer, but what have you found that works? Um, I mean like specific time examples of athletes?Um, usually like mornings. Like, if you get them, if you, cause, I mean, I mean, I was a college athlete. Athletes are divas, let's call it what it is. Yes. So if you get them, when they get out of bed and they're like just like hanging out and like chatting on their phone and like practicing and like, that's kind of a good area to do it.I'd say, I'd say collegially past noon, you got another shot. Okay. NFL wise, it just kind of depends. Like we talked to a quote out there today, like he had an O line dinner and he didn't know about it. And I was like, okay, that's fair. But it just depends. But just, just entrepreneur wise, you have to just try every time until you found one that works.So, so, and really what you're saying is you, you have to, you the entrepreneur have to make yourself available. There are no off times. So if this guy wants to meet for coffee or whatever, 16 hours away. You have to figure out how to get your ass there. Um, I think that's really good advice. I think that's something that I struggled with early on, but also, um, people that I work with, they want it to fit their schedules.It, that doesn't happen. You got to give more than a little bit.Yep. And you were on the money, but you were here at one 20. Um, okay. That's fair. So if, If that's the most famous ACL, is Achilles your market? No. Because you don't know, because it's not rotational? They're trying to figure it out still. I think, I mean, Dr. McCullough kind of said it best. I asked him the same thing.I'm like, how do you do that with Achilles? He's like, I don't know if you can, like yet. But that's more of a fatigue based injury. You either push something too, too hard. Or you go, you go into it right away without proper training. And at least, and he said, you see killings kind of at the end of the season, Superbowl or beginning of the season, Aaron Rodgers, kind of, you see it kind of where it's a long period of improper loading or it's a fatigue thing.That's what I think. That's also not rotational. So versus ACL, which can happen at any time, although I would say that it goes up with fatigue. Yeah. I mean, everything does. Yeah. And it's also what you play on. Okay. There's been studies that I read 10 years ago that the outside of the field had more interested receivers and dvs are like they're kind of the first ones to go because it's so much grab you know That's very interesting.I never thought of that. And like, and this whole debate about grass and turf, man, they both suck. What's your take? They're both terrible. There were more injuries last year on grass than NFL and turf. True Sports Physiotherapy is growing like wildfire. We have 14 locations, soon to be more. We are throughout the state of Maryland.We're in Pennsylvania, in Lebanon, in York, Pennsylvania, as well as in Delaware, in Newark and Wilmington, Delaware. Like I said, so many more practices to come and we always need outstanding sports physical therapists. Our treatment style is unique. We are one on one with your athlete for 45 minutes. Every single session, you do the entire treatment, you do the entire evaluation.And they are in state of the art facilities where you have room to run, throw and jump and really get your athlete all the way back to on the field and better and stronger than they were. We also have outstanding salaries. Comp structures, bonus abilities, 401ks, as well as a very strong continuing education offering, including in house continuing education.And we're looking for you. Now is the time as we are growing like crazy, just shoot your resume over to Yoni Y O N I at TrueSportsPT or shoot us a DM and we will hit you back. We will get you in for our unique tried and true interview process and really make a determination. That this is the right place for you to grow your career and get your athletes better than ever.We can't wait to hear from you. So if that's the case, if it's like you, let's say you have solved or at least put a dent in the ACL, uh, epidemic. Why do you think they were happening more often or they are happening more often?You are definitely qualified to answer this based upon everything you've been through. So don't give me that caveat. I say it's It's I'd say it's, I mean, look, if you got injuries on ground, what's the common denominator, but you put in your feet, call it what it is. You know what I'm saying? We're also training at a rate that I don't think our bodies can keep up with, man.You got people running. You got Eric Henry's, who's the size of a left tackle running 23 miles an hour. It's pretty insane in full pads, in full pads. That was pretty insane. Yeah, for sure. And like, love watching it, but like, I don't know, it's just, you're going to wear cleats on no matter what you play on, that is the only common variable.Weather's not the same. You're playing indoor, you're playing outdoor, but like. You're always wearing cleats and you, and you, and you, I don't know if I'm, like I said, fatigue is always playing a crucial part in injury. Yeah. And, and also it's important to delineate between, um, when you say fatigue between acute and chronic.And I think there were, there were a couple teams. I know the Eagles were one, um, that significantly cut down on their practice time and managed to stave off injury more consistently. So I think there's an overtraining aspect to this too. And that's one of the difficult things. The all seasons have just gone away.I'm not even just talking about pros. I'm like, I'm watching these lacrosse kids like kill it over the summer. And then I'm watching them do winter stuff and, um, and they're playing fall and their summer bleeds into the fall. There is no off season.Her season is done November. She starts. So it's crazy. It's an insanely long season with no break pretty much with no break. And what are they doing? They're doing one match a week. Uh, in season, give or take, so that's crazy, but I'm also always amazed how quickly baseball goes back. Like if you play into the postseason before, you know, a pitcher's and catcher's report.And now the same thing with the NFL, like they just start so early, especially if you make a late run, it, it is crazy. And I think that's why the recovery science has come along nicely. Um, this seems to be a massive missing piece. And I'm not saying it because it's mine. I'm saying it and it's not mine. I think it's really, it's really interesting because to your point, like what have we seen change in footwear in the last nothing?Everything actually, we actually made it work. How so? Too much pattern. Traction. Traction. No, I mean, I mean, traction is the driver. No doubt. It's linear. It's lateral. It's rotational. It's everything about it. But that's also why you do something. I mean, if you go and look at any. Any S, uh, SEO marketing on cleats type it in and it's all grip plate, Viper 12 run faster.And you can like, and it's just, that's all driving injury rates. Yeah. That's the only innovation that's been done. I know lighter because there's nothing inside of them supporting your ankle. There's nothing inside of them supporting your ankle. So, so that's interesting. It's also, if anything, we have Ramped up how sticky we are.And you know, it's convenient that we're just saying it's the turf's fault. That's not a coincidence my friend. It's not, it's not. That's really, that's a great point. Um, if anything, we've made it worse. I think like that was your point. I was saying like we've gone crazy throwing padding on the bottoms of like running shoes and we've gone crazy.What drives me insane. I wonder what your thoughts are on this. Um, Athletes going to running stores and saying, what shoe do you recommend for this type of foot to like the college kid who's working the desk at your local run store? Like what a what the hell do they know? B who's pushing that? You know, Brooks has a deal with this given running store and that's what's outfitting.So that's why I love that. You've gone the route of. Running studies and trying to see how much torque does this decrease? Um, what eventually, what does this do to injury rates? I'm telling you, you can get a good study on that.Everything about every industry might be politics. Now we're, we're really tin hatting it. Um, okay. So, um, give me a little bit more, tell, tell the audience kind of What you want them to know about Cadix and how the hell they can get them on either their feet or athletes feet. Yeah. So I'm not doing this for money.I actually don't like, I think if you gave me X amount of money tomorrow, my family's taking care of, I'd probably give it away to guns with you. This isn't to get rich. If I have a fly fishing rod and a bike, I'm a hack of the rest of my life. So, I mean, this isn't just like product placement. Like Yoni's my friend.Like I always want to help anyone's to help me. Like, this is just kind of what we're doing. So. Before I sell this cleat to you guys, I want to do you guys a note, like, I'm not just trying to sell it to you guys. Oh. This works. It does. And if it didn't work, it's still comfortable, and it's better for your feet, then probably anything you can buy at Dick's.And it costs the same. That's what's interesting to me. Yeah. And it costs the same of a higher end lead in any sort of, across the board. But we, we have countless texts and emails saying that, Hey, I had crappy angles in high school because my basketball career or whatever. And like, I wear these and my ankles feel great.And we, I mean, we actually had a quarterback at, uh, at an FBS school. It was like, Hey, my turf toe is gone. And we're like, Oh, we didn't even do that. Sorry about that. So, so like, I mean, his turf toe, like feels great now with this. And like, I mean, everyone's strained and stressed on their ligaments are better.Like it's just, It, it works and it's not because it's mine. It literally works. If this, if I was on your podcast as a housekeeper, yes. Um, can you just clarify that? So I don't sound like I'm calling your name. I will. But, um, if I was on here, it's just like a buddy of yours. I'd be like, this, this works. Like absolutely.Define works. Cause I think that's important. It does its job. It reduces strain on your ankles, knees, potentially hips. Period. That's it. It does. And if you've played sports before, Where you watch what's before, you know, exactly what that movement can do. We always have like middle school vice principals in our comments saying, this will never work.And I'm like, I don't know. You teach history. I don't know.All right. Housekeeper. Yeah. Housekeeper. I was a housekeeper. I was 19. I started doing this in the national park. I was making a bed and I was like, man, I gotta get out of this. Why were you doing that? Uh, it was a pretty national park. Yes. Been there. Amazing. Amazing. So quick story, which isn't that interesting, but it's not that interesting.I spent a lot of family trips, either going to ocean city, Maryland, I assume you've been there and to Israel. And I'm like, I'm, I'm trekking around Israel. I'm like, this is God's country. Like, Oh my God, this is beautiful. You can ski in the North and four hours later, you can scuba in the South on the same day.It's bananas. And I just thought that was Israel, but I didn't know. Cause all I, the other thing I knew was Thrasher's French fries. Like that's the only other thing I know. But when I went out to Zion, I was a. I was in college and I staffed a teen tour. I'm looking around Zion national park and I'm like, Holy cow.It's it's gorgeous. It's gorgeous. So I was, I was a housekeeper there and this idea, just, just 19, just want to get a Maryland, just want to do something. And, um, I was like, man, I'm not, I'm not going to make bets forever. Like, nah, ain't no way I'm doing this. So that day I got, I left work. I went to do well, bought a cleat, tore it apart, like watched it, how it worked.I actually. I was in paper clips and rubber bands and like made it spin and I was like, okay, literally quit my job. And the next day I drove to Maryland and I was like, I'm going to do this full time. So that was, I mean, that turned into this. That's bananas. Is there any, just as I pick it up, I'm thinking, what are you going to change this at all?Like what do you think your next iteration is going to be? Um, figure out how to make it wider. I just, I just think our toes need to breathe in terms of the plate. Just okay. Wider plate, which would equal a wider toe box. Yeah. Okay. I don't think it would be necessarily a wide cleat, but I think it would be pretty close to a wide cleat.Um, yeah. Is that what you're talking about with the lineman? Like, is it going to be larger? No, it's a lineman knee. So if you need a mid cleat, there's a sock liner. Okay, it comes up higher. But linemen, that'll all be padded. Okay. And the heels, the heel spikes will probably just remain how they are. And you just think that this doesn't have any effect upstream?Um. The heel cleat. It does in a landing situation. Like when you land, heel to toe quickly. Yep. To get that to a good translation. Yeah, that's a little bit, but that's extremely rare. What made you not put the movable cleat in the hind foot? It's just more frequent. I mean, that's how he runs. How do you plan to take a turn?Yep. So, okay. Is there any detriment to putting it in there? Does it cost more? Like what? I mean, it definitely costs more, but like that's not what makes more sense. Then there's it back there and everything else where the, where the force is being distributed. Yep. Okay. Um, that makes sense. Then, um, tell us how.How we get them. Do you, do you want people on that list? Do you, like, where are we funneling? Yeah, so, on the website, if you go to the bottom of the first page, you'll find is, there's a bar, you can push your email in, and just hit, uh, I think the button is, like, submit or whatever. It's just your email in the newsletter.We send, uh, one out every week, and whoever's on that list has first access to inventory. So when these come over here in like two weeks, we're going to open pre sale just for newsletter subscribers. Okay. And given the numbers we have already, we might sell out. We want to have any more after that. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, go online, check us out, put your email in, um, Instagram is Cass Cleats, so is Twitter or X sorry, Elon.Yep. Um, so yeah, just check us out and learn more. Like I'm, I'm more than happy to respond to emails from anybody has questions, anybody I'd be happy to. I actually like doing. Even if your name's not Todd Hieb. Even if I'm, yeah, even if you're not Todd Hieber Dennis, you can still email me and I'll get back to you in 48 hours.That's, that's pretty awesome. And I can definitely attest to that, that your response time is better than my response time. So, um, no doubt, not saying much. Um, it's, it's really awesome to see where you've come, even in these four months. I mean, these four months have been bananas. So, you know, to, to get you back on and hear how it's, Just grown over the last four months.I bet you, we do this again in four months and you have, you have even more stories and more investors. Um, I love hearing it. I love, obviously I'm so passionate about the sports medicine side. So I love hearing that you're trying to change sports injuries for the better. That you are innovating on a technology that hasn't been touched and could be a missing link into all the injuries that we've been seeing.And I freaking love your hunger. It's awesome. It's awesome. So inspirational. I'm so happy you came on to share this story with, with our, with our audience. We got great feedback on the first one. Um, check them out. CaddxCleats. com. Damn it. CaddxC A D D I X. I'm looking right at it. Um, and get on, get on the list, serve, get the emails and buy them when they come out.Jack great freaking story, man. Thanks for coming in. All right, everyone. Thank you for listening. Let us know what we did outstandingly. Let us know what you want to hear more of. If you want to hear more, Jack, I would love to have him back on next week. Maybe I'll have another story for us. Anything you want to hear from us, true sports PT on Instagram guys.Thank you so much for listening. Bye bye. Bye bye.
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